A debate with a "YES on 8" person
I think that during the California Proposition 8 campaign on same-sex marriage, simple "Vote NO on 8" signs were useless, in that they didn't convince anyone. Here's a sign that would've been more effective:
If two people you don't know get married, is it any of your business? NO. Vote No on Proposition 8.
And here's a debate I had with a coworker on election day:
coworker: i told my parents to vote
me: did you tell them to vote No on 8?
coworker: YES on 8
coworker: why would u want to support gay marriage?
me: If two people you don't know get married, is it any of your business?
coworker: it isn't my business , but if u vote NO
coworker: they will start educating ur children about those gay couple
coworker: THEN it becomes ur business
me: What should children be educated with regards to gay people?
coworker: why would they need to be educated ?
me: Have you heard about hate crimes against LGBT people?
me: "In the United States, the FBI reported that for 2006, hate crimes against gays increased to 16%, from 14% in 2005, as percentages of total documented hate crimes across the US. The 2006 annual report, released on November 19, 2007, also said that hate crimes based on sexual orientation are the third most common type, behind race and religion." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people
coworker: That's why we need education
me: And if you don't want the kids to be educated, vote NO for a proposition on gay education (to leave the kids ignorant), but that has nothing to do with gay marriage. So if gay marriage is none of your business, then vote No on Prop 8.
coworker: u just said it's none of our business
me: It's none of your business if two people get married. Who are you to take away their right to do so?
me: Forbid your kids from marrying the same sex person, but when it comes to other people, you have as much rights to forbid them to marry as they have to forbid you from marrying a man - NONE
coworker: oh well, too late, they have voted
coworker: u have 3 more hr to connivence others ...
me: have I convinced you?
coworker: well, i agree it's none of our business
coworker: but i don't want kids to be educated about gay marriage
coworker: right now they are not getting educated about normal marriage in the young age much.
coworker: putting too much gay marriage education is too bias
coworker: and i don't get why by the lack of gay education would lead to more violence
me: You fear gay marriage education because of the Fox News show about a kindergarten teacher who had the kids sign LGBT pledge cards. Correct?
me: Oh well. News for you. You've been a victim of propaganda.
coworker: well, basically, i don't wanna step on their shoes if they bother with gay marriage and all, but also want them to leave us alone.
coworker: so if they didn't pass the gay marriage proposition , there won't be prop 8 today
me: What exactly is the problem with kids learning that marriage can be between gay as well as heterosexual people?
me: Would you prefer kids to be ignorant?
me: Or let them learn (from what sources?) that marriage should be only between heterosexual people?
me: I don't agree with that kindergarten teacher, but that only means that that teacher should be reprimanded; it has nothing to do with Prop 8
coworker: well, if gay marriage is banned then teacher has no right to teach it
coworker: if it become more prominent, then gay marriage will start showing on the school textbook and u as parent would have no right to overthrow that
me: Now, evolution is taught in schools. If you as a parent don't believe in it, does it mean it should not be taught in school?
me: Banning as a form of education is stupid. In Romania, any sort of sex education was banned from schools and universities. The result is that kids had all sorts of mistaken ideas and many young girls got pregnant because they had no information on how to protect themselves. Sex was considered dirty and wrong.
me: If sex was considered wrong, people who practiced it were considered wrong and hated.
me: That is how lack of education leads to hate crimes.
me: If kids are taught that some people, by birth, are homosexual, and others are heterosexual, but both are normal human beings who think and act and love and deserve equal respect, there is no reason for hate crimes.
me: That's why education about gay issues is necessary. Just as we educate kids that being black or yellow is not abnormal or a reason to hate someone.
coworker: maybe u'r right
coworker: but if gay marriage becomes widely accepted then gay education will be spurted to the textbook where there is even not that many education for normal marriage.
me: We actually don't know that
me: But if that happens, we need to pass an amendment to equalize education for both gay and hetero marriage
coworker has signed off.
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